Overall public sentiment is critical and concerned about the escalating arms race between the US and China, particularly regarding missile defense systems. Commenters express skepticism about the effectiveness of these systems and a strong sentiment that such military advancements exacerbate global tensions and undermine peace efforts. Many highlight a desire for improved focus on societal issues and global stability over military spending.

United States

China

A lot of people have been calling it a meteor (I saw a few on the Reddit front page too) but it's definitely not one

_spec_tre

I don't know if it's a meteor, but red fireball indicates it's lithium and strontium-rich. I don't believe hypersonic warheads contain either of those.

Uranophane

That fireball is a SAM still in its powered phase, while that faint little dot is the target being intercepted. This is just a very routine exercise for intercepting subsonic cruise missile target, I have no idea why it’s been blown so out of proportion online

Critical_Lie_3321

SlavaCocaini

Why do we need B-21s if we can just use the glorious C-17s fitted with 5 3×3 Rapid Dragon palllets?

BillyHerrington7425

Sir this is NonCredibleDefense. Please upload some B21 18+ images instead.

Long-Refrigerator-75

[deleted]

Ok but what happens if China builds Stonehenge in the Gobi Desert?

xvr0317

ok but i saw a video of a chinese guy with a flying sword, how are you gonna counter that?

noobyeclipse

I mean..... no??  

First off, LRASM stockpiles (and stand off munitions in general for AFGSC) are still somewhat limited and likely will not start to look actually ok until near the end of the decade.  Also these aren't assets with quick turnaround times, and when you factor in maintenance, time in air, mission planning, etc, you are probably not getting as many strikes per week as you would really want or need.  The number of targets needed to be hit to actually degrade the PLA operationally and strategically.... is... significant, to say the least.  [This is what PLAAF basing alone looked like about 5 years ago (so way worse now)](https://imgur.com/a/quick-dirty-plaaf-airbase-strategic-sam-radar-installations-YKl1gKW) with most of these requiring like several dozen munitions (in the absolutely best-case scenario, some targets easily can go into 3 digit range) 

Also, the PLA has an airforce to, [with a doctrine that is highly based around datalinking and sensor fusion.](https://old.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/umy3lz/will_the_chinese_navy_in_the_future_operate_on_a/i85j8ju/?context=3)  The airspace around the 1IC will be incredibly dense with Chinese sensors that even things with low RCS rates could be vulnerable.  The PLA already possesses CEC capabilities on some level (something which strangely enough was proven by Pakistan), so its very possible they will be able to persecute this sort of target.  

[Good analysis I would recommend checking out.](https://old.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/comments/vs924o/can_china_invade_taiwan_detail_appreciated/ifkl4dy/?context=3)

NovelExpert4218

But according to daddy elon, ai cameras and satellites can see stealth planes so there's no point

SPRNinja

All this high tech bs is getting boring, bring back dive bombing. Thats way to sink ships that might even grow some hair on your chest, not this sissy Standoff BS

FancyPantsFoe

The problem with LRASMs is that you can easily win against them by simply fielding cheaper targets. What the fuck do you do when the PLA just swims to Taiwan with floaties bought off of Temu? Where are your missiles now, flyboy?

kimchifreeze

the copium is strong.

Any serious war is a war of production. In WWII the USA dominated japan because of its production capability which dwarfed Japan's, which led to the victory. 

As China's production capability has increased, the american capability to build pretty much anything has dwindled away. If the trend continues American ship building will be basically over, while China's is on a sharp rise. China will have the same position as america did when they joined WWII

treriksroset

this sounds like such a cope post LRASMS and B-21s aren't invincible one shot one kill wonder weapons lol

69toothbrushpp

Can't the chinese shoot down LRASMs with thermal cams and bullets or lasers?

sharkykid

I'm not even Chinese and this kind of just feels like massive cope.

ShiningMagpie

China navy is larger by number of ships, but if you go by tonnage, theyre not even close to the US Navy.

Aggravating_Bell_426

Guys yall don’t even need the b-21s, just slap on extra range extensions for the LRASMS and you’ll be able to launch them from Hawaii. LRASM? More like LRASM-EEEEEEEEEEEER

Mighty2Soup

JohnSith

I've been assured that Chinese radar can pick up stealth planes by switching to low-frequency mode, so all our investment into stealth is worthless

Lamballama

bro you are so top boring  even in NCD😅

Fearless_Ad_5470

Billy Mitchell is that you? What was hell like?

DeadKingOfScotland

You forget, time. It takes far longer for any plane to fly from Hawaii to China than it does for a flight from Guam to China. By the time they are launched and on their way, time situation could've drastically changed by the time they're in range of striking distance.

Obviously, since we are talking **stealth** bombers, and time, they will be based in Mongolia. Invisible, so no detection. Mongolia is mucho closer to China. As a bonus, it is also mucho closer to Russia.

My question is, why can’t we unite forces and make a China-US Alliance to make the biggest land grab in history proxy of Russia ?

Critical_Adeptness82

You'd be interested in something called "QuickSink"

TobyHensen

We need to ensure Taiwan can remain operable as the foundry of 90% of the worl'ds premiere semiconductors. If we dont ensure that Taiwan has a good defence, then any resulting conflict will be quick war of attrition, as Taiwan makes the chips in all of our LRASMs and B-21s... We'll eventually be fighting each other with sticks and clubs like they do at the Chinese - Indian border

For now; we should be bolstering Taiwan with a sufficiently sized autonomous QRF that can hold the PLA off long enough for reinforcements to arrive from the surrounding Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Guam etc. bases

See: Anduril and Saronic with their projects in modernising and automating the production of smarter munitions, and even autonomous weapons themselves

RadicalCandle

China fired their chief auditor of the PLA for corruption yesterday.

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/27/top-chinese-general-miao-hua-ousted-from-body-that-oversees-china-military](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/27/top-chinese-general-miao-hua-ousted-from-body-that-oversees-china-military)

Even China's government knows that their military strength exists on paper and not on the field.

Closed societies don't fix their problems when they show up on paper, they make their paper match the funding's demands, without making the nessicary corrections.

It's always easier in a society without accountability or free media, to make the paper good, rather than report an issue and fix the real problem. China wants to take Taiwan by 2028, and here they are firing someone so elevated, they haven't really investigated that position since 1960.

We don't know if China's government is dumb enough to believe their own strength on paper, come the decision day. But, it looks like they're starting to see the PLA hasn't been reporting their progress accurately.

r/NonCredibleDefense TLDR: They need more ketamine, that will fix all their doubts, and enable the funny and the 2nd great 'turkey shoot' of the last 100 years.

TLDR China: You can do it China, please try before you fix anything else in your society.  Easy victory, 3 days to Taipei. You can do it today, don't look into any more of the reports from the PLA's invasion drills.

EffectivePatient493

&gt; the B-21s range will enable it to engage the Chinese navy from Hawaii (it might even be able to reach targets on mainland china from Hawaii.)

PRC: “Oh boy surprise Pear Harbor attack 2.0, here we come!”

Blueberryburntpie

what use is a b-21 at the bottom of the ocean, though

SemajLu_The_crusader

Are you sure China can't build new ships faster than the US can build LRASMs?

ds-throw

This is NCD, it's too logical and credible

KeikeiBlueMountain

Yeh but then china will activate order 66 on all byd evs in use to form ai controlled mecha soldiers

octahexxer

Some coupium this is, 2+ billions on striking housis with 0 results, yet lrasm will surely be able to do massive ammmounts of damage.

Saeba-san

It is in our national interests in the event of a war to allow China to load all of their forces onto thousands of ships and then sink them in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

GlumTowel672

Buddy go to less credible defense post this shi cuz you in the wrong sub yo

gottymacanon

Except before anything happens a bunch of shipping containers dump out 3000 drones that destroy every air base

I think the way Ukraine and isreal did the drone attacks is something every nation needs to be prepping for.

witcher252

you should post this here: r/leastcredibledefense

edgygothteen69

Sir, we need to escort you out for posting non NONcredibleDefence

powerpuffpopcorn

The question will be if the war escalates to total war or not. I warrant the Chinese have the advantage in that state just judging off the performance of western gear and supply chains in Ukraine. Gear needs to outlast as much as it outperforms and I fully believe U.S. intervention in Taiwan will be as unpopular and bipartisan as it was in Ukraine.


That will be the time when a lot of blood and money needs to be shed and the closest thing to an equal will be fighting the U.S.


Personally, I don't think the American people are ready for it. But at least right now, the situation hasn't collapsed into inevitable war, so that's fortunate.

Glass-Mess-6116

I think the US and allies have enough LRASMs to double-tap every capital ship in the PLAN (though I'm not 100% certain on that). I think we need to focus on:

A) other systems that will assist the LRASMs in getting to their target without interception - i.e., shit to overwhelm the defenses of the Chinese ships and create a dilemma in jamming the LRASM guidance systems. 

B) Developing a system (of systems) that can take on the IMMENSE number of small ships that China has.

Roadhouse699

Don’t they require all ships built to be a certain specification to quickly be militarized? So hypothetically all of their ships can be outfitted fast?

killyourtelevision7

Why do you need long range bombers when the US literally has bases in South Korea, Japan, and The Philippines

The_Weary_Chief

blaze_aaa

What if China build the Venetian Arsenal and gets 2 ships for every one that they produce?

Algizmo1018

defl3ct0r

I feel like tonnage is often an underestimated component of a fleet's size, the US navy still has double the tonnage of the PLAN.

Old-Translator-143

Disagree, there's a good chance that b21s will be inferior to drones when things do kick off.  

1. Who starts the war determines the timing, this pretty much has to be china, because the US really has no chance of occupying china or anything, any war goal would be to status quo. Because of the time frame involved in developing aircraft and missile technologies being decades, It will be relatively easy for china to find a couple year gap somewhere in the next 20 years where their available assets are competitive.  
2. The B21 while being good now, is designed around a cockpit and human; Any drone with the same basic design excluding these will have significantly improved performance characteristics. Cockpits and humans are a major limitation to aircraft design; weight, aerodynamics, max acceleration, minimum turning radius, weapon capacity, mission fulfillment regardless of survivability, and potentially even targeting.

hollow_bridge

I think it's important to remember that the United States Navy has like 10 Supercarriers and the PLAN has, what 2? And a half? Or something.

I'm not saying that the PLAN isn't a serious threat but qualitatively and quantitatively the US military would absolutely mog the PLAN in a slug out fight

Readman31

STFU, recommission the battleships, turbo charge their engines and bring the PLAN into gun range.  Yee haw.

ramenmonster69

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Not Chinese but that doesnt matter because its the same reason. every "opponent" of another country dislikes missile defence systems.

It undermines the idea of MAD if the defence systems become too good

Exciting-Wear3872

As such China would develop our own and would hence lead to arms race

tenzindolma2047

It is explained in plain English in your post.

If the US is no longer afraid of nuclear retaliatory strikes, they can use nuclear weapons on a whim.

Nuclear deterrence is based on a subtle balance, the golden dome would destroy that balance.

Busy_Garbage_4778

The nuclear power balance between great power is based on the fact that no one can 100% defend themselves from nuclear missles. If such balance is broken it could cause another round of arm race.

Evercloud88

Because if you lose the ability to retaliate the other side is free to move offensively. 

They're right to be upset, the US doing this forces everyone else to spend money doing so. Who this really hurts is medium sized players. No amount of defense can prevent a strike from china if they chose to do so. But it could stop what a medium sized power could throw at us. 

  
At its most optimistic you would make a golden dome and then go to iran, north korea, ect and say disarm now or else and end up removing a bunch of nuclear weapons from circulation. 

Thats assuming all this works, which i sure as hell wouldnt want to count on.

Healthy_Razzmatazz38

Because it's an offensive weapon since it uses missile systems to shoot missiles in space. It's more of an offensive weapon than a defensive weapon.

Severe-Ticket-2394

Not a Chinese, but a missile defense system removes the mutually assured destruction threat tied to pre-emptive nuclear strikes. If the US can be completely protected from harm, but able to strike anywhere with world ending impunity then it has no need to deal with diplomatic solutions and can be a belligerent indefinitely.

Its a bit of a silly piece of fiction but Tom Clancy's End War game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom\_Clancy's\_EndWar) has a strategic missile shield as a large part of what eventually spurs on World War III.

Functionally, imagine if the USSR had been immune to missile strikes but could strike anywhere - how do you think the US/Europe would react?

We currently have people in the US government calling for strikes on the Three Gorges Dam over a trade dispute, something that would kill millions and absolutely demand a nuclear escalation. Why would anyone trust the US to not be an aggressor if it could be immune to reprisals?

ytman

Because "defense system" for America really points to "offense" America is in the business of starting wars and sending troops to fight. America is not a peaceful nation and now under fascist Trump, it even threatens long time ally nations.

hotDamQc

Because China (and everyone with a working brain) know that when the USA finishes the dome they will start wars against anyone. That's Trump's and his crew's obvious dream, why can't Americans see that?

gabrielxdesign

How would you feel if the school bully decides to show up to school everyday with a bulletproof vest

Significant_Apple904

The same reason the US opposes any other country having a Missile Defense program.

However, this quote from FOX News is taken out of context.

Why is the US building a "Golden Dome?"

The US is the only country in the world with nuclear armed submarines off the coast of every major nation.

If a Nuclear War were to break out the U.S. has the best chances of walking out of it with the upper hand. This is a huge card that the U.S. is able to play geopolitically. Everyone with even a basic understanding of IR or Game Theory recognizes this, and all geopolitics that you see unfold in the world are under these constraints.

So if the U.S. somehow makes itself even more impervious to nuclear strikes, while at the same time not scaling back its nuclear attack capability then this is rightfully seen as an escalation by any sane observer.

StepAsideJunior

Chinese foreign ministry on principle is opposed to any military development of the US, just like the US state department "expresses concern" about everything Chinese military does. But of course this doesn't stop Fox News from creating a news story about "the Chinese is panicking about our new project that the only people say is feasible are the defense contractors".

Considering the US declare Chinese garlic a national security threat, the Chinese complaint is hardly out of line.

No-Satisfaction-275

I think China just doesn't want war, and the US is thirsting for war.

sddryan

Because although it’s called a “defence” system, it can also be used start a conflict as well. Plus , it’s a big step towards the militarization of space.

astraladventures

Defense is just a cover up, this system is really designed to strike anywhere in the world with ease.

bro, those "defense systems" literally work by shooting missiles. You can easily tweak them to just shoot at the enemy instead of oncoming missiles.

Bazzinga88

sim16

isn't there a treaty to prevent arming space?

Own_Power_6587

Cause it tampers with MAD and it will do so by putting interceptrs in space both are big no nos, the second is more legitimate than the first thought

ppmi2

BottomlessFlies

HorseWorking

Sad-Arachnid-5166

I asked Google Gemini to explain it like I am five and here is the response 

Okay, imagine you and your friend both have toy swords, right? And you both promise to only play fair and not hit each other with your swords.
Now, imagine your friend suddenly gets a giant, super-duper shield, like a really, really big one that can stop anything. And your friend says, "This shield is just for me to protect myself!"
But you look at that shield and think, "Hmm, if my friend has such a strong shield, maybe they'll feel brave enough to swing their sword really hard, because they know they're safe. And then I'll have to get an even bigger sword to protect myself!"
That's kind of like what China is thinking about America's "Golden Dome" shield. America says, "It's just to protect us from bad rockets!"
But China worries that if America has a super-duper shield, America might feel more powerful and do things that make China feel unsafe. And then China might have to build its own super-duper rockets to make sure they can still be strong.
So, China is saying, "Hey, let's not make super big shields or super big rockets! Let's all just promise to be fair and not scare each other, okay?"

aristocrat_user

As reported by "FOX NEWS".that bastion of reliable unbiased US reporting ? 


Well if it is anything like Israels IRON DOME, it will be far from very effective. And these projects take a long long time to develop to be operationally reliable.


I really don't think China GAF &amp; could easily build its own .RED DOME based on Russian air defence system's, which are some of the best in the world, but probably even more advanced

2GR-AURION

my guess is because US plan to weaponize their satelites as a part of this Iron Dome system

FrozenSkyy

Because the US has made the very same comment a million times on China having a missile defense system for China's Mainland. 

I call it Boomerang effect lol

Fc1145141919810

Ah China is doing reverse psychology to Trump. This project is going to make Americans bleed money faster. Those 170B$ are just the down payment 😂

Nasi-Goreng-Kambing

What “ally” has China provoked into war? If ur referring to Taiwan, they are part of China but I’m sure we’re not goin to agree on that. China has the most advanced radar systems in the world and openly stated that they can detect b2 bombers with the LPIR.

It won't work. If 1 out of 100 mirvs get through the fallout will do the rest.

Well, would the USA have anything against a Chinese version of this Golden Dome flying over the U.S. at all times?

asnbud01

It'll be fun watching Elon try to build it out of materials that the USA doesn't have ready access to, and China (through BRICS) largely controls.

ThatGuy_Bob

ActPrize5556

US also has military bases around every corner of the earth... I think this context matters. 

But I think Fox News is mostly for entertainment.

ParticularVillage146

yawn reported, another day, another ADV type with a bait question

Ill-Penalty-7652

yeah, "protecting from enemies" by setting missile bases right at China's door steps, just like NATO did to Russia

GreenC119

Wouldn’t this give China justification to develop their own Golden dome with interceptor missiles, nuclear warheads mounted on military satellites? Said satellites would circle the globe multiple times a day making it impossible to defend against if they do decide to release those nuclear missiles?

ah-boyz

Nah they’re not - they know it’s a waste of money.  Already tried in the 80s.

EnvironmentalLie3771

It's a GLOBAL system. Not too different from THAAD in Korea that can scan deep into the Chinese northeast. 

Now if china puts a THAAD equivalent system in Mexico or Cuba or Canada, how will the US respond?

After all, it's defensive against "enemies". 

What's good for the gander is good for the goose.  

China will just deploy its own star wars system in response. 

Don't complain if they get there faster, bigger and better.

dice7878

Is everyone really ok with US installing missles launcher in the sky? Today they said its for defense again china. But please rationalize about this. Being able to shoot projectile on incoming missle mean it can shoot at something else. Like a house, a car or hospital in gaza. Like a drone attack, death from above to any unsuspecting target. Today US is up against China, tomorrow might be india. Surely world leaders have to think more critically to address the possibility of what if Superman turn evil? Like what happened to iraq? Where are the WMD? USA invade the country  based on a pretense it stockpiling WMD. Loted and killed many, no WMD. Today, US claim china is amassing their army but i think anyone would be ignorant not to do that same if you look at how many military base currently surounding china. How many military based does china have near the US? I fell to see how china is a threat.

EntrepreneurOk9295

It's not so much as only China against this. Almost any analyst in this industry will tell you its a fruitless endeavor for short term defense gains. In the long run, defense tech is evolving fast enough that these defenses will be useless by the time it gets fully implemented it. Infact both the US and the Soviets tried this in the cold War, realized its practically useless because they both ballooned nuclear warhead stockpiles to their highest. Both parties knew pursuing a "golden dome" type defense didn't make sense when you can just launch more warheads than there are interceptors. It's why even Bush when making the missile defense agency made the objective to only cover emerging threats from Iran and North Korea due to their inability to build at scale in any meaningful way. Countries like Russia, China, and the USA can build more offensive icbm's and warheads than defensive interceptors and systems that can reliably ahoot fown incoming missiles. So China I suspect mainly wants to avoid building a larger nuclear arsenal than initially desired, ensure a Mutually Assured Destruction policy isn't disturbed even if it is fruitless for the Americans, and not have tensions rise due to a very obvious response that any country would need.

I'm regards to satellites observing everything that some people mention here, those already exist on both sides. Both China and the US already field satellites meant to observe for ICBM launches. Whether including interceptor missiles in orbit is on the table remains to be seen. It's an idea far off later that it's possible the US scraps this whole project before anything happens. It's litterally a concept weapon that would take years to just finalize, let alone build prototypes to test, refine, then field in large numbers. I would bet on this weird trade war ending and Trump leaving office before this idea of space based interceptors happening at all.

FreeFloatKalied

It’s a big dick swinging contest. Neither Xi nor Trump wants to see their dicks got countered.

Edit: as a regular Chinese living a regular life, I don’t care about what politicians say, be it Chinese or US. They can all go to hell and idgaf

kr1spybac0n

Because China is the enemy that want to strike. Simple logic deduction. Wtf even is the point of this post except for rage bait

AlxIp

MAD has guaranteed world peace (relatively) for since there are nukes

JackReedTheSyndie

i mean tbf it does mess with the principles of MAD and make the prospect using nuclear weapons more attractive if you think you can defend yourself from the retaliation

spartaman64

Why don't all nations just create a dome around the world to prevent all missiles from missiling?

Ramerhan

But for some reason, deep down in my stomach, I think the American MIL will once again tremendously over charge the American people for a missile defence system that probably won't work

ALittleBitOffBoop

https://preview.redd.it/8cv3smj4dd2f1.jpeg?width=1280&amp;format=pjpg&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=fdd85bd3e28d51f97bda7557a285c174be9d4cf4

No.

WorstFkGamer

In a new arms race reminiscent of the Cold War, the US and China are developing advanced missile defense systems aimed at protecting against intercontinental ballistic missile threats.

US-China Missile Defense and Arms Race

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